Can you forgive those who would divide Us?

[Ourself]

I can forgive. Bin Laden, Bush, Hitler... Any war monger will do.

I can forgive them because I don't think they understand what they are doing. If they knew it was themselves they were hating and harming, they would see there is a problem. They can't fix the problem because they think the outside has to be fixed before the inside.

To crave suffering is insanity. Living a nightmare. I can forgive somebody for doing something harmful while unconscious. But I would still lock them up until they are Awake.

What do you think?

[kathleen ann]

Originally Posted by Ourself

I can forgive. Bin Laden, Bush, Hitler... Any war monger will do.

I can forgive them because I don't think they understand what they are doing. If they knew it was themselves they were hating and harming, they would see there is a problem. They can't fix the problem because they think the outside has to be fixed before the inside.

To crave suffering is insanity. Living a nightmare. I can forgive somebody for doing something harmful while unconscious. But I would still lock them up until they are Awake.

What do you think?

Hello Everyone,

I agree with your thoughts Ourself. Forgiveness is a healer for us all in my opinion. Sometimes not an easy thing to do if pain is still raw, and emotions high..I heard somewhere,To forgive is not saying what you/they did is/was right. But, that we would no longer carry the pain that unforgiveness feeds to our own soul/spirit. It must be so much more difficult though when touched on a personal note.My feelings are forgiveness gives back the spirits power to feel and do good...But, I do feel a protection towards the vulnerable especially children everywhere. Therefore yes, I do feel those who harm should be kept away from those they harm. perhaps including themselves........Only my thoughts of course

Love, and Peace to you and all....kak

[Essence]

Originally Posted by Ourself

I can forgive. Bin Laden, Bush, Hitler... Any war monger will do.

I can forgive them because I don't think they understand what they are doing. If they knew it was themselves they were hating and harming, they would see there is a problem. They can't fix the problem because they think the outside has to be fixed before the inside.

To crave suffering is insanity. Living a nightmare. I can forgive somebody for doing something harmful while unconscious. But I would still lock them up until they are Awake.

What do you think?

Greetings My Spiritual Kin,

My thoughts on this subject:
Forgiveness is not an issue. Just like Kath said, to forgive is to heal self, the surrounding situation and many others also involved. My personal experiences have shown me that once an individual is awakened spiritually to a certain place, forgiveness becomes even a mute point. To feel the need to “forgive” another there has to be some act that has been taken personally by the one who forgives. Once this plateau of awakenment has been attained the need to process events as personal ceases to exist. Even IF the, we’ll use the word “attacker” does focus malicious intent directly and personally toward another individual, the “awakened attackee…intended victim” sees the event for what it is; Illusion, (*) thus all need to attach to the energy of the event in a personal way is lost. This perspective creates no energy bond that needs forgiveness. (*An aside note here: always an Illusion that is playing a specific part for the learning and growth of those involved).
My next thought on this thread is:
I’m not so sure many of these individuals, especially at the, we’ll describe it as…. “at the top of the chain of command” are not fully aware of just exactly what it is they are doing and are simply willing to “pay the price” for the energetic havoc their actions reap, each for their varying personal reasons. And yes, I’m talking at a level that is, at the very least, energetically awakened.
Now, at the next level of knowing, the level which understands and operates fully from the place of acceptance and knowledge that we are All One, there is created the part of Self that can see, understand, and accept the dramatic event for what it is. This part of Self can even hold compassion and gratitude for the Spiritual Being who has agreed to play the part of the “malicious one” in this Illusion we call Third Dimensional Reality. This is a very hard concept to recognize, encompass, and hold as truth at the energetic level of the third dimension, but it is a truth all the same.
At this vibratory level of light, the Higher Self can and does, see that the “malicious one” is simply a spiritual peer who has agreed, for varying reasons of their own, to physically incarnate into this dense third dimensional level of existence and play a part; one that most of us would not care to take on. From this plane of “Reality” comes the understanding where we can muster forth from within us, even at the third dimension, the emotions of compassion and gratitude for this brother or sister I spoke of before. Does this mean we condone their actions at the third dimensional level? No. Does this mean we allow the physically incarnate being they are to harm others repeatedly? No. Does this mean WE have a part to play and a responsibility to hold ourselves accountable for our actions, or non-actions, in the illusory drama we are all participating in? Yes.
So you see, once we begin our spiritual awakenment, we start to operate from levels we never even thought of before, much less believed existed. As the awakened and awakening third dimensional physical beings we are manifest as, we have much responsibility and work to do. It is time we begin in earnest to take on what we came here from the higher realms to do.

Much Love, Light and Many Blessings to You All,

Namaste

Essence

[Ourself]

Thanks for the thought out answers, my brethren;

Kathleen Anne;

It must be so much more difficult though when touched on a personal note.My feelings are forgiveness gives back the spirits power to feel and do good...But, I do feel a protection towards the vulnerable especially children everywhere. Therefore yes, I do feel those who harm should be kept away from those they harm. perhaps including themselves........Only my thoughts of course

I know what you mean... I've heard that people who forgive their childhood abusers are more likely to break the chain of abuse than the ones who keep the anger in.

Once you attain a true sense of Compassion, it's funny how you can take away all meaning and look objectively at any situation and see the right thing to do. Acting instead of reacting. I've heard that some people when they take away all meaning before attaining true Compassion become nhilistic and can actually hurt themselves.

It is my understanding that this almost happened to Sidhartha Gautama under that tree.

Essense;

Now, at the next level of knowing, the level which understands and operates fully from the place of acceptance and knowledge that we are All One, there is created the part of Self that can see, understand, and accept the dramatic event for what it is. This part of Self can even hold compassion and gratitude for the Spiritual Being who has agreed to play the part of the “malicious one” in this Illusion we call Third Dimensional Reality. This is a very hard concept to recognize, encompass, and hold as truth at the energetic level of the third dimension, but it is a truth all the same.
At this vibratory level of light, the Higher Self can and does, see that the “malicious one” is simply a spiritual peer who has agreed, for varying reasons of their own, to physically incarnate into this dense third dimensional level of existence and play a part; one that most of us would not care to take on. From this plane of “Reality” comes the understanding where we can muster forth from within us, even at the third dimension, the emotions of compassion and gratitude for this brother or sister I spoke of before. Does this mean we condone their actions at the third dimensional level? No. Does this mean we allow the physically incarnate being they are to harm others repeatedly? No. Does this mean WE have a part to play and a responsibility to hold ourselves accountable for our actions, or non-actions, in the illusory drama we are all participating in? Yes.

Thank you, that is just what I mean. It's at this point where Compassion has nothing at all to do with how you feel towards anything so is no longer emotion based. It is just pure logic... Common sense.

So you see, once we begin our spiritual awakenment, we start to operate from levels we never even thought of before, much less believed existed. As the awakened and awakening third dimensional physical beings we are manifest as, we have much responsibility and work to do. It is time we begin in earnest to take on what we came here from the higher realms to do.

I wholeheartedly agree. My only problem is trying to figure how I would be most useful to the whole.

[Essence]

Originally Posted by Ourself

Thank you, that is just what I mean. It's at this point where Compassion has nothing at all to do with how you feel towards anything so is no longer emotion based. It is just pure logic... Common sense.



I wholeheartedly agree. My only problem is trying to figure how I would be most useful to the whole.

Greetings Ourself and welcome back. Long time no see.....

I would like to make a comment about your words I have highlighted in the "Royal Blue" color....
Although I do understand at an intellectual level what you meant by your wording I felt the need to maybe elucidate and clarify a bit so there is not misunderstanding by anyone anywhere. This does not mean you will agree with me, it just means "I" see it this way......lol
I just don't see how "compassion" can be emotionless. As a matter of fact, no matter how I analyze it, at the high level of spiritual frequency we are speaking of I would say it is an impossibility. Now, I will agree that "compassion" takes on a whole new energy at this level, and just like you stated to Kath, a true sense of compassion creates objectivity and clarifies proper actions from one, because it places ones decision making in a mode of "taking action" instead of simply "reacting" to base emotions.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, to me, true spiritual compassion emanates from true spiritual emotion, from true spiritual unconditional love. I do "know" that we can have "compassion with detachment" and I teach this is a place we should all aspire to. We can have a logical understanding of compassion, we can show compassion without becoming hooked into the dramas that created the need for compassion in the first place, but compassion of this level is created in the High Heart Chakra and above, and cannot be the all encompassing healing vibration we are speaking of if it is only shared from a logical level of our being. It must come from our Source of Divine Unconditional Love, and any and all who have ever experienced for themselves this frequency of Love's vibration, I would venture to say would most definitely equate this to a "Spiritual Emotion".
I am tired and it is late as I try to share my thoughts on this, so I hope I have explained my thoughts on this adequately.

Love, Light and Blessings,

Namaste

Essence

P.S. Maybe we can talk later about how we can all best serve the whole?

[Ourself]

Hi Essense!

I look forward to that conversation.

I see where you are coming from on this but I still must Lovingly disagree just a teeny bit.

I just don't see how "compassion" can be emotionless. As a matter of fact, no matter how I analyze it, at the high level of spiritual frequency we are speaking of I would say it is an impossibility. Now, I will agree that "compassion" takes on a whole new energy at this level, and just like you stated to Kath, a true sense of compassion creates objectivity and clarifies proper actions from one, because it places ones decision making in a mode of "taking action" instead of simply "reacting" to base emotions.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, to me, true spiritual compassion emanates from true spiritual emotion, from true spiritual unconditional love.

Feeling with emotions and feeling with sensations are two different things, in my opinion. If your leg was injured, would it take emotion to see it needs healing? I don't think so... You feel the pain through your leg and you act on it. Same thing as if you see a person hurt on the street. You feel the pain through that person and act on it.

You don't need to feel sorry for the person any more than you have to feel sorry for your leg. You feel the pain and act accordingly. I think if it was based on emotion, it would be a reaction and not an action.

The Way I see it, if emotions are needed to feel unconditional Love, it is based on the condition of how you feel at the time and couldn't be objective.

How much actual emotion do you need to show in putting on a jacket because it is cold? Even the most heartless person will put on gloves in the arctic but without knowing it, they are being Compassionate to their hands.

To me, it is just common sense.

[Essence]

Greetings Once Again Ourself,

Okay, let me see if I understand you correctly…. Because I really think we are presenting the same concept, we are just doing it based on our individual perceptions and from the 3rd dimensional level; thus we are having to use the 3rd dimensional form of communication, which unfortunately does not work and function well at the level of concept we are discussing…….LOL (Soon….very soon, we will all communicate in forms that are much better suited for this type of discussion……LOL)

First, I agree….. feeling with emotion and feeling with sensation are truly very different things. For lack of better way to quickly describe the difference I will use this example. Feeling with emotion is “Human”; Feeling with sensation is “Vulcan”. Are you a Star Trek fan? Lol

The other way you are saying “tomato” and I am saying, “toe-maw-tow” (phonic spelling…) is in your statement: “ You don’t need to feel sorry for the person any more than you have to feel sorry for your leg”. I agree. But…
The level of compassion of which I am speaking is not borne of pity. Compassion borne of pity is created out of base emotions and is very dense in its energy compared to the level of Spiritual Compassion I am speaking of. This lower level of compassion is created in the 3rd and 4th Chakras, respectively the Solar Plexus and the Heart Chakras. (It is sparked and ignited in the 3rd Chakra and then grows and moves to the 4th Chakra and it is from there that it emanates forth from us to be shared with others). This type of compassion has its necessity in the lower realms of existence and in truth; the lack of this level of compassion is what has brought Humanity and our World to the place where it is now. (This might have been avoided; this might have been Divine Source’s Plan, but that is another conversation….lol)
If you reread my last post you will see that I made mention of the “fact/idea/concept” that the level of Compassion I am speaking of is created and emanates from the level of the High Heart Charka and above. It is not the same as the compassion created from our physical density emotions. It is not even created from our altruistic caring emotions that are of a high level of energy of the 3rd dimension; which by the way this level of compassion is needed now on the planet in full force to assist humanity in healing and awakening.
May I offer to you, if you are familiar with the workings and use of the 7 Chakra system, try this…. Meditate on and breathe through the area between the High Heart Chakra and the Throat Chakra. The High Heart Chakra is the 8th Chakra and is located approximately half way between the Heart Chakra and the Throat Chakra. See what, if anything you experience with this.
I must say; I am truly enjoying this conversation. Thank you for that. What a gift.

I anxiously await yours and anyone else’s comments on this amazing exchange of concepts. Thank you for starting this thread.

Love, Light and Blessings,

Namaste

Essence

[Essence]

P.S. I almost forgot.... I don't believe emotions are needed to feel Unconditional Divine Love; at least not 3rd dimensional density emotions. But I do think they are the springboards humans use to catapult them to the place where they open up to the energy of Unconditional Divine Love.


Love, Light and Blessings,

Namaste

Essence

[Ourself]

Hi again, Essense! I really hope you're having a fantastic day.

This may be a tad long... Begging all pardons.

Okay, let me see if I understand you correctly…. Because I really think we are presenting the same concept, we are just doing it based on our individual perceptions and from the 3rd dimensional level; thus we are having to use the 3rd dimensional form of communication, which unfortunately does not work and function well at the level of concept we are discussing…….LOL (Soon….very soon, we will all communicate in forms that are much better suited for this type of discussion……LOL)

I agree... It can be taxing communicating with words. And I also agree that one of the next steps is doing away with the need. I wonder how the majority would adapt to the inability to decieve.

First, I agree….. feeling with emotion and feeling with sensation are truly very different things. For lack of better way to quickly describe the difference I will use this example. Feeling with emotion is “Human”; Feeling with sensation is “Vulcan”. Are you a Star Trek fan? Lol

Now I know We are talking the same concept! I was trying very hard to come up with a Vulcan Way to put Compassion. The only one I could think of was my own... The choice which creates the least amount of harm is the ethical one. Oh wait a minute... Didn't it go something like "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" To which Kirk replied "Sometimes the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many" Spock just kinda raised his eyebrows if I remember right (Spock was the one Kirk was reffering to, lol).

I really do like Star Trek. I believe We will be using food replicators sometime soon. Once We tap into perpetual motion, the energy, resource and overpopulation problem will be a thing of legends.

The level of compassion of which I am speaking is not borne of pity. Compassion borne of pity is created out of base emotions and is very dense in its energy compared to the level of Spiritual Compassion I am speaking of. This lower level of compassion is created in the 3rd and 4th Chakras, respectively the Solar Plexus and the Heart Chakras. (It is sparked and ignited in the 3rd Chakra and then grows and moves to the 4th Chakra and it is from there that it emanates forth from us to be shared with others). This type of compassion has its necessity in the lower realms of existence and in truth; the lack of this level of compassion is what has brought Humanity and our World to the place where it is now. (This might have been avoided; this might have been Divine Source’s Plan, but that is another conversation….lol)

I do agree again. I have only recently looked into Chakras. I have heard much about them, but not enough to know what I'm talking about. I know what you mean about the pity though. If the basis of Compassion is based solely on pity, it is still reinforcing the Us and "them" disease.

If you reread my last post you will see that I made mention of the “fact/idea/concept” that the level of Compassion I am speaking of is created and emanates from the level of the High Heart Charka and above. It is not the same as the compassion created from our physical density emotions. It is not even created from our altruistic caring emotions that are of a high level of energy of the 3rd dimension; which by the way this level of compassion is needed now on the planet in full force to assist humanity in healing and awakening.

I must admit, I find this concept interesting. The ideals I hold are mostly logic based (All being One...)and it is appealing to hear the same concept of Compassion arise from an understanding of the Chakras. Not that I didn't already know the Wisdom of Chakras is beneficial, but that I may have underestimated how beneficial it really can be.

May I offer to you, if you are familiar with the workings and use of the 7 Chakra system, try this…. Meditate on and breathe through the area between the High Heart Chakra and the Throat Chakra. The High Heart Chakra is the 8th Chakra and is located approximately half way between the Heart Chakra and the Throat Chakra. See what, if anything you experience with this.

Thank you very much! I will do this at lunch tomorrow. I am too tired Now and I want to be able to focus rightly (I work night shift, blah).

I must say; I am truly enjoying this conversation. Thank you for that. What a gift.

I anxiously await yours and anyone else’s comments on this amazing exchange of concepts. Thank you for starting this thread.

I'm enjoying it too. Thank you for responding!

Namaste

P.S. I almost forgot.... I don't believe emotions are needed to feel Unconditional Divine Love; at least not 3rd dimensional density emotions. But I do think they are the springboards humans use to catapult them to the place where they open up to the energy of Unconditional Divine Love.

Most assuredly... Pain teaches Us to heal.