What happens after we have eliminated "our dark thoughts /side /actions" from our consciousness or subconsciousness? What happens after we achieve "enlightenment"? Have any of you really thought this thru' ? The way I see it; our dark actions brings us pain; pain is the gateway to understanding and compassion. We were created with dark/light. One cannot exist without the other. Are we saying that we are flawed and we need to change (remove the dark bits?? ); that God somehow made a mistake when creating us; that it was not part of his plans for us to "fall from grace"? Don't think so. We are the way we are because it is exactly how He wants us to be. We sin, we fall, we rise above it only to fall again - we learn. HE is entertained!!
When the thought has become pure and the mind no longer tainted it is there that heaven will reside.
Would one rather drink water from a spring or water from a lake, from tap or filter?
The darkness in which resides within is the ignorance of the unkowing truth.
The concept of learning is to grow and evolve.
From falling we learn of our mistakes, from our mistakes we grow and evolve into a more understanding and enlightened people. If one has children it can be seen in every stage of growth from a baby to a teen.
We are actually entertained by our own decitful concepts.
We are entertained by negative influences, such as T.V./movies which praises every known sin related to man and music which further manipualtes the minds of the young telling women it's ok to be hoe and men it's ok to be a thug.
This is what we face everyday because of mankinds unknowingness or the great ignorance that infiltrates the meaning and purpose of life.
It is not god who has created suffering ,but it is us who do not work together to make the world a better place.
God is the great river and man is a stream, the stream has the oppertunity to reunite with the source of it's exsistence.
Last edited by harmonythruchaos; 10-01-2008 at 01:17 PM.
Wow! That was yes so interesting, opening so many other doors for discussion. Thank you James, Essense, Jonas - I totally dig what you're saying here. Wish I had time to pick apart some points but "reality calls" LOL
Hi all,
I believe you are missing the point of the imperfections and flaws that God has apparently allowed to happen in his creating the world and us in it.
I believe the point is that despite all that goes wrong, and all that is wrong, we are to learn to develop unconditonal love. The state of unconditional love means we love all words and their opposites, good/bad, dark/light, beauty/ugly, genius/stupid, healthy/disease, strong/weak, winner/loser, etc.
Unconditional love is that heaven we can obtain on earth because this is how we become most like God.
“Hi all, I believe you are missing the point of the imperfections and flaws that God has apparently allowed to happen in his creating the world and us in it.”
The common ground we share on this statement is I think we both can agree that the imperfections and flaws apparent in this life are as much apart of life as the perfections and joys.
I’d like to leave who or whatallowed them open for the sake of this discussion.
“I believe the point is that despite all that goes wrong, and all that is wrong, we are to learn to develop unconditional love.”
The common ground we share on this statement stops at the word learn.
I believe there are many reasons we are here and that one reason we are here is to learn, but much more than just “unconditional love”
“The state of unconditional love means we love all words and their opposites, good/bad, dark/light, beauty/ugly, genius/stupid, healthy/disease, strong/weak, winner/loser, etc.”
Here is where you loose me. Unconditional acceptance of the world of opposites allows us to grow and know our true selves but I don’t love
Darkness and disease. I also don’t hate them. I remain balanced and centered in reference to them.
What I am trying to say is we don’t learn unconditional love by living in the world of opposites, we awaken to who we are in the world of opposites and that is “unconditional love”
Thanks for listening,
James
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I have never read this book nor do I know much about it however I do believe we at all times learn if we have an enemy within but its also up to us to leave that or take control of it.
I would like to elaborate some more on "He is entertained" - a point view shared by Jonas. Why would an Almighty God feel the need to create Human Beings? I've come to two possibilities:
1) He is indeed vainglorious and wanted Beings with consciousness to admire his work (the Universe), praise and glorify him (and ONLY him). But that sounds pretty "not-godly" to me; that is a human trait. Or
2) He was bored. He wanted to be entertained. We have only entertainment value to him. I prefer to go with the latter.
Next let's take a look at our free will and freedom of choice. I believe this to be an illusion. Like accepting that Life may indeed have no further meaning than what we're experiencing in the now (a frightening concept too much /too hopeless for us to accept), we also find it hard /frightening to think/accept that we do not really have freedom of choice - not when it comes to the major issues in our life. Often we experience the feeling that "life has run away with us in tow"; we're helpless against the twists of fate and events. I think a lot of you out there will agree with this. No matter how well planned our lifes were, how hard we were working to achieve our dreams - Wam! life happens and we're spinning. I believe we are ruled by a pre-defined fate. We dance to His tune under the illusion that we chose the music.
I would like to elaborate some more on "He is entertained" - a point view shared by Jonas. Why would an Almighty God feel the need to create Human Beings? I've come to two possibilities:
1) He is indeed vainglorious and wanted Beings with consciousness to admire his work (the Universe), praise and glorify him (and ONLY him). But that sounds pretty "not-godly" to me; that is a human trait. Or
2) He was bored. He wanted to be entertained. We have only entertainment value to him. I prefer to go with the latter.
Next let's take a look at our free will and freedom of choice. I believe this to be an illusion. Like accepting that Life may indeed have no further meaning than what we're experiencing in the now (a frightening concept too much /too hopeless for us to accept), we also find it hard /frightening to think/accept that we do not really have freedom of choice - not when it comes to the major issues in our life. Often we experience the feeling that "life has run away with us in tow"; we're helpless against the twists of fate and events. I think a lot of you out there will agree with this. No matter how well planned our lifes were, how hard we were working to achieve our dreams - Wam! life happens and we're spinning. I believe we are ruled by a pre-defined fate. We dance to His tune under the illusion that we chose the music.
Greetings Narnia,
I read your post and it brought a smile to my face....thank you.
I could go into a lengthly discussion as to the pros and cons of what you wrote, and we could discuss it for days to come, but instead, I would like to ask you a couple of questions about your beliefs as you have stated them in your post and in what I have highlighted in particular.
How does holding those beliefs make you feel? Do they frighten and dismay you? Or do they bring a sense of peace and serenity to your life?
Do they give your life a sense of purpose? If not, do you feel that is a missing part of your life that needs to be filled?
Friends
If you would forgive me, this is Starbaze picking back up on an earlier thread but I'd like to address all the threads,
James wrote: (I don't know how to do the quote thing yet)
"Here is where you lose me. Unconditional acceptance of the world of opposites allows us to grow and know our true selves but I don’t love
Darkness and disease. I also don’t hate them. I remain balanced and centered in reference to them."
You said you don't love darkness and disease. Thus your love is conditional in regards to darkness and disease, See?
I am saying that unconditional love says there is no difference in how you see light and darkness, they are the same in love, there is no difference between health and disease, they are the same in love, there is no difference between day and night, they are the same in love, life and death are the same in love, man and woman are the same in love. There is no such thing as a man and no woman or vice versa, no such thing as day and no night, and vice versa.
There is really no value as to the quality of these things, I think you may be trying to say to me, and i agree. The only value that I give these things or opposites is how we feel about them. Do we love light and darkness or do we love one but am ambivalent/centered about the other?
Unconditional love says there is no difference in the quality of how you feel about the other part of the thing you love.
All things are apart of the same or all things and their opposite are the same.
The importance of this is so that we love ourselves as every condition and its opposites. For instance do you love yourself as a winner and you love yourself as a loser? Do you love yourself as wanted and love yourself as unwanted?
Why? So that you can love winners and you can love those who are losers the same, you see? In fact more people lose than win, so if you love winners, and not losers, that condition ignores/rejects/makes less important the losers. Or So that you can learn to love smart people and you learn to love their opposites the idiots the same you, see?.smile!
The way God made a flawed world or a world of opposites invites us to the challenge of also loving the opposites of the things we love. See?
Thank you Starbaze for your thoughts. Once again I think the many interpretations of "words" and the flaw with forums in that it is almost impossible to express ones proper intent in "words", are getting in the way of what we all feel about this subject but deep down I think we all agree.
Thanks again!
James
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