What happens after we have eliminated "our dark thoughts /side /actions" from our consciousness or subconsciousness? What happens after we achieve "enlightenment"? Have any of you really thought this thru' ? The way I see it; our dark actions brings us pain; pain is the gateway to understanding and compassion. We were created with dark/light. One cannot exist without the other. Are we saying that we are flawed and we need to change (remove the dark bits?? ); that God somehow made a mistake when creating us; that it was not part of his plans for us to "fall from grace"? Don't think so. We are the way we are because it is exactly how He wants us to be. We sin, we fall, we rise above it only to fall again - we learn. HE is entertained!!
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Narnia,
These days, to me “enlightenment” is more about waking up and finding your purpose in life. The “thought” of enlightenment is energy and continues to grow just like all energy.
So therefore the word “achieve” doesn’t even apply.
I have also found that we “choose” to be influenced by “darkness” and we chose so because it serves our fears which are further influenced by darkness. We didn’t “create” it, but it is there and it serves a purpose and its all good!
When you realize that the source of your thoughts is the accumulation of events and actions over lifetimes, you realize that your current actions and beliefs might possibly be nothing more than the effects of those thoughts. For example, we continue to seek spiritual growth but we constantly fail because we unconsciously think we may lose our family.
I have found that I needed to just start anew, reinstate my vow to serve spirit but this time as someone who is awake in a different way from before. I am at the same time being thankful for my past for its influences and I no longer allow myself to be limited and the result is spiritual freedom and growth.
I hope that helps you better understand me and my thoughts
James
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So to me that means these inherent not so obvious negative influences which stem from the beginning of time and are quite invisible to the average person can be brought to the surface of our existence by the light of our higher self and bound and released to the light leaving only the self. The pure self. So it's not really a part of us but rather it influences us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narnia
We were created with dark/light. One cannot exist without the other. ...We sin, we fall, we rise above it only to fall again - we learn. HE is entertained!!
Hi!
I believe in both of the concepts above...
I do believe we have something that can be called the "true self", I would see that as the soul.
But why are we here?
IF it would be good enough to continue to be a perfect soul of pure light floating around in the higher realms....then why make this cumbersome journey to the inert material world..? I believe that we are in the material world for a reason. A GOOD reason!
The reason, as I see it, is basically in the quote by Narnia: "He is entertained"! Now, god is of course not a specific gender and in my view "God" is not separated from us. I like the Vedic/Hindu analogy that god and man are the different sides of the same stick, it's not exactly the same thing but you cant say when one begins and the other ends.
What that means for me is that what we are doing is to entertain ourselves! I like to see the world as a good play at a theater, its not real but damn convincing! Or as a trip with the roller coaster at the amusement park: if I know it just looks and feels scary instead of actually believing that I'm in danger - then it can be quit pleasant!
I don't believe in the christian concept of sin but in the Buddhist/Hindu concept of karma; whatever I send out comes back. There is no judgment in that and there is no punishment or reward. If I give out love - loves comes back. If a give out fear - fear comes back to me. It is up to me to decide whether I prefer love or fear.
As I see it, our journey ends when we know to 100% who we are. At that point the theater play will become dull and it is time to...well there are many ideas about that....
My point is that life is really worth living when you are somewhere in the middle of being fully aware and not; if you are aware to 100% it would not be exiting, if you are totally separated from the soul/true self then it just gets too scary to enjoy. And the journey in finding out who you really are is the really, really exiting part of the whole thing!!!
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Hi Jonas1,
Good to hear from you my friend.
Some years ago, I studied Hinduism and just like when I studied the works of Jesus, I was fascinated to say the least. But just as the concept of being “saved”, sent me on another path away from man's version of Christianity, the concept that this is all some type of “entertainment” for “God” led me down another path away from Hinduism.
I don’t mean to discredit what you may believe. It’s just the very thought that this is a game is appalling to me. If this is entertainment then the fact that we need to wake up to save this planet is just entertainment too. If that's the case, please stop the ride and let me off!
My personal feeling, is that just like I prefer a universe full of diversity and full of relationships at many levels, so does the creator. “Life” is just that, never ending inter-relationships on levels we know and many we may not know but it is always moving and always influencing something else and always will be.
Just my thoughts
James
Last edited by James; 09-29-2008 at 07:05 PM.
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Greetings All,
Narnia, Jonas1, and James, I wanted to tell you.......I want to play too....LOL
I agree with so much that you all have posted here this morning/afternoon, (isn't it funny how time seems not to matter much anymore? LOL)
I have some things I want to add/share here on this topic, but I have to go play in what most humans call "Reality"..... There is another topic for us. One of you start it.........LOL
I will be back as soon as I can, but like I said, I have to go play in Reality (that translates to I have to run the vacuum and clean the toilets). I don't know about any form of 'God', but I do not really find those tasks 'entertaining'.........LOL only necessary...
It’s just the very thought that this is a game is appalling to me. If this is entertainment then the fact that we need to wake up to save this planet is just entertainment too. If that's the case, please stop the ride and let me off!
LOL! I understand what you mean! But...
You know the age old question: "What is the meaning of life?"
I believe the most correct answer is: "There is no meaning of life." or even more provocative "Life is meaningless!".
What I mean is that life has the meaning we give it. Football (I mean soccer here as I'm from Europe) doesn't have meaning before you give it a meaning. Once you have given it meaning you can enjoy looking at grown up men running around on a lawn in shorts!!! (Try to convince a Marsian about that!) The great thing is that when we know that we can give meaningless things meaning than we can start to enjoy anything. Most, or rather ALL, things that evoke real happiness are things that themselves doesn't have any objective meaning. A sunset, the smile from a child, a certain scent etc.
But, as I see it, the really important thing; the more we get un-attached from the material world, which can be provocatively described as seeing the material world as a game, the more grows our love for everything that is in it!
So for me it is not a contradiction between the two. This view is of course based on something I didn't mention in the previous post and that is the reincarnation of the soul. If we only have one single shot on earth and that's it - then the idea of a stage would sound very cynical. But if "I" is the soul rather than "I" = "Jonas" than its different. If the soul is the real "I" than "Jonas" is something else... My view is that "Jonas" is a form the soul uses to express itself. And that is very close to see what an actor is doing with a role. And if god and me is not separated - then I am god expressing himself (or to make it really confusing; "Jonas is god enjoying myself" ).
I also believe that humans inherently has a preference for love. Or rather; love is the ether we are created of and are drawn to. The closer we get to the soul (= the more we are aware of the play going on, the more we are aware of this "ether" we are made of), the more we love everything we see, because, if love is inherently inside every human, we can't stop loving the earth, the nature, other humans, life itself etc.
But.... Is there any meaning in feeling all this love? No. It's just how universe is. There is no more meaning with love than with gravity. It's just the nature of universe.....
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But, as I see it, the really important thing; the more we get un-attached from the material world, which can be provocatively described as seeing the material world as a game, the more grows our love for everything that is in it!
To me being un-attached from anything means I no longer see myself as separate from spirit.
I realize the ego has fooled me and has convinced me that my thoughts are me. Once I realize that, I am free to really, really LIVE life. Maybe it has been likened to a game at this point because of the real joy in living with awareness and purpose.
But honestly, I really think we all believe the same thing, it is just that “words” do it no justice and in fact do truth an injustice. “Words” have their place but they really are (like described in a book I am currently reading), a “slippery water snake”
Peace my brothers and sisters
James
Last edited by James; 09-29-2008 at 08:56 PM.
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Greetings All,
I wanted to share on this topic, so I will start here.
Narnia, you asked:
What happens after we have eliminated "our dark thoughts /side /actions" from our consciousness or subconsciousness? What happens after we achieve "enlightenment"? Have any of you really thought this thru' ?
Oh my yes! on so many levels……….lol
The way I see it; our dark actions brings us pain; pain is the gateway to understanding and compassion.
I understand what you are saying here, and on one level I agree. The ‘pain’ associated with our Earthly life lessons is the resistance force that, when used in a positive manner, propels us forward in our (physical) movement and our spiritual growth. Yet, this only happens when we actually learn from the experience that has caused us pain; usually emotional, mental and/or spiritual pain. It works much in the same way as a child’s first experience with the tactile sense of something being hot. When he/she touches something hot and gets burned, it causes pain and they quickly learn not to touch ‘hot’ again. Some children will learn this lesson with only one experience of ‘hot’, while others will repeat it once, twice or many times more before they fully learn the lesson of ‘hot’.
I would like to add here that for eons now, it has been our way (humans) to use pain for our spiritual growth. We could discuss the many reasons why, but that is not really the topic here. What has changed IS just that……….we have, and are growing spiritually. Just as when a child grows, we as parents periodically go through their clothing and get rid of what they have outgrown, I mean, why hang onto what can no longer be of use? We have to make room in their closet for the new clothes, the things they can wear and are of use. So too it is with our spiritual growth.
The ‘clothing’ of using pain as a lesson, as a force of resistance to push against to propel us forward, has served us well. It has brought us to where we are now. It has brought us to a place where the mass Collective Consciousness is awakened enough that we no longer need that type of lesson to move forward. There are now enough awakened and awakening people on the planet to hold open the way for the others still in their awakening process. We no longer need all those old, worn out, ill-fitting clothes. We have new clothes, and we need room in our closet for them. It is time to get rid of what no longer serves. And what no longer serves is the thought form (paradigm) that we have to suffer to be worthy of, and to become spiritual. We ARE spiritual. We ARE Spirit.
We were created with dark/light. One cannot exist without the other.
Once again, I will agree with you on this at a certain level. Here…..in this plane of existence, a plane created of duality, you are totally correct. It is true; one cannot exist without the other. They are dependant on each other for their existence. The lessons of non-separation start at the sub-atomic level here in our Universe and Reality.
Are we saying that we are flawed and we need to change (remove the dark bits?? );
In our truest form…….NO……..we are not flawed, we are perfect. We are every bit as perfect as God. How could it be otherwise? For we are all, each and every one of us, a Divine Spark of God, We were created in His/Her/Its Image………. we are each an atomic sized piece of God.
that God somehow made a mistake when creating us; that it was not part of his plans for us to "fall from grace"? Don't think so. We are the way we are because it is exactly how He wants us to be. We sin, we fall, we rise above it only to fall again - we learn.
Sorry to repeat myself…….LOL But…..on one level…..I agree (to a certain extent). By now you have probably noticed that I use that term quite a bit! The reason is, there are many different levels to all of this. Many levels and perspectives from which to look at all of these ideas and concepts from; it simply depends on where an individual is in their awakenment.
Now…..back to our subject at hand…..
that God somehow made a mistake when creating us; that it was not part of his plans for us to "fall from grace"? Don't think so. We are the way we are because it is exactly how He wants us to be. We sin, we fall, we rise above it only to fall again - we learn.
On the level we are speaking here; We humans, (and any other beings which might be) as we exist in this plane of existence in this time/space reality have one thing that is NOT common through out all of the multi-verses. We have “Free Will”. We have the ability, the right, indeed the responsibility to choose our course of action.
You are right…….God made no mistakes. There is no such thing as a mistake; there is only choice. Some good, some not so good; some lead to positive growth at a quicker rate than others, but believe it or not……in the end, they all lead back to from whence we came…….back to God. All roads lead to OZ…….lol Sorry, couldn’t resist..
When ‘God” set this experiment up, ‘God’ knew very well that “the fall from Grace” was a possibility. But it was our choice. (This goes back to that Quantum level; the whole concept that we create our own reality; the observer affects the observed) ‘God’ did not necessarily want us to be here….where we are in being so far removed from our Original Source, but ‘God’ gave us the use and responsibility of ‘Free Will’, and there is no judgment we are being held up to either. We made our choices and now we are waking up and taking responsibility for them and are making our way back to what this whole experiment was set up to create. I won’t go into that here because that is not our topic, but we can discuss it later if you like.
HE is entertained!!
Possibly there is a certain amount of amusement around the antics we find ourselves in from time to time…….I mean, we all laugh at ourselves every once in awhile when we see some of the things we create for our self to have to contend with. Laughter is a creation of the Divine, so to me, God laughing at us from time to time is just him laughing at himself…………
I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much for sharing it with me.
Narnia,
These days, to me “enlightenment” is more about waking up and finding your purpose in life. The “thought” of enlightenment is energy and continues to grow just like all energy.
I like the angle from which you see this. Your definition is wonderful.
So therefore the word “achieve” doesn’t even apply.
I have also found that we “choose” to be influenced by “darkness” and we chose so because it serves our fears which are further influenced by darkness. We didn’t “create” it, but it is there and it serves a purpose and its all good!
When you realize that the source of your thoughts is the accumulation of events and actions over lifetimes, you realize that your current actions and beliefs might possibly be nothing more than the effects of those thoughts. For example, we continue to seek spiritual growth but we constantly fail because we unconsciously think we may lose our family.
James, That is such an insightful knowing. I think this is true for sooooo..many people; for many this is true at a subconscious level. I can remember this as a truth for myself when I began my journey so many years ago. I actually have a friend who is dealing with just this issue even now. The good news is, she is awakened and aware of it and is releasing it so that she may continue her spiritual journey free of this fear.
I have found that I needed to just start anew, reinstate my vow to serve spirit but this time as someone who is awake in a different way from before. I am at the same time being thankful for my past for its influences and I no longer allow myself to be limited and the result is spiritual freedom and growth.
I hope that helps you better understand me and my thoughts
James
Thank you so much for sharing these words of wisdom. May they reach the hearts of those who need them.
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).