Hmm, I'm trying to grasp your concept but its difficult, because I believe if one has given up on humanity, you have given up on God, because in a sense if you've lost the love for your fellow man, haven't you lost love for yourself? therefore it essentially means you have lost love for God. So the relationship you describe I feel is illegitimate, an illusion of a false connection.
Please dont get me wrong as they are far from godless and im not trying to condem them, only bring to light that their choice to see and deduction of truth is extremely misled.
e.g. a member of your family commits suicide(I say this only as an [extreme] for you to understand [God forbid]), you spoke regularly, saw each other very often. your family member has two kids still at pre school and you wouldn't have dreamt in your wildest dreams this could be a possibiity. How would you feel? Hurt? Baffled?...would that not be selfish on the kids behalf not to talk of the partner, left wondering why? why would it be any different regardless of circumstance, with our relationship to God, as his 'children'? (in hindsight, person prays regularly, goes to church often) and still commits suicide!.. its happened. Do you see the illusion of truth? (This example is very simple example)
It is not difficult to grasp, I can understand your opinion to a DEGREE but you really have to look outside the mind and physical.
God Bless.
Last edited by theoryd; 08-09-2008 at 09:03 PM.
Reason: touch up
Hmm, I'm trying to grasp your concept but its difficult, because I believe if one has given up on humanity, you have given up on God, because in a sense if you've lost the love for your fellow man, haven't you lost love for yourself? therefore it essentially means you have lost love for God. So the relationship you describe I feel is illegitimate, an illusion of a false connection.
Please dont get me wrong as they are far from godless and im not trying to condem them, only bring to light that their choice to see and deduction of truth is extremely misled.
e.g. a member of your family commits suicide(I say this only as an [extreme] for you to understand [God forbid]), you spoke regularly, saw each other very often. your family member has two kids still at pre school and you wouldn't have dreamt in your wildest dreams this could be a possibiity. How would you feel? Hurt? Baffled?...would that not be selfish on the kids behalf not to talk of the partner, left wondering why? why would it be any different regardless of circumstance, with our relationship to God, as his 'children'? (in hindsight, person prays regularly, goes to church often) and still commits suicide!.. its happened. Do you see the illusion of truth? (This example is very simple example)
It is not difficult to grasp, I can understand your opinion to a DEGREE but you really have to look outside the mind and physical.
God Bless.
I can only explain that the giving up on humanity, comes not from God's presence , but from his/her absence in humanity. I asked about evil a while ago, and it was explained to me that it is the absence of god. When I think of my own experiences of life, it is the only thing that can make sense of some situations and incidents I have witnessed.
One of my brothers, killed himself a few years ago (2 other siblings where accidentally killed in previous years). I was told he was found hanging by his neck. And yes, it is disturbing, I felt devastated to realize that he felt that much alone in his suffering. He was the most loving of all my remaining siblings. He was only 33 and left behind 4 children. 2 to the first woman and 2 to his last. Both, using his children as tools to have power and control of him. He lost what he loved most, his kids and didn't want to be here anymore. There where other factors involved, of which I wont go into.
I understand what you are saying about illusion and truth, it's just that not everyone can see the truth yet. I remember when I didn't and it was very painful. I didn't want to be here, but as my children's only parent I could not abandoned them. They where my motivation to begin my search for the truth of life. My brother simply lost his motivation, they (his kids) where taken from him and he blamed himself. He was someone who would help anyone and he died alone. I think sometimes if one sins, we all sin. Some people have lives of such torcher (few could imagine), that, I prefer to believe that God gives us a way out if we so choose. It is easy to speak of seeing outside the mind and body but the truth as I see it, those of us who exist here are also made of body. As temporary and illusionary as these may seem it involves many feelings not everyone can understand. Enlightenment comes when one is ready.
I have read that before we are born that we enter an agreement to be born who we are and to who we are born to as well as how we are to live and die. As a spirit, material experiences are temporary and do not hold the significance people put on them. Including physical death. It is all for the purpose of learning the truth. I don't believe any life or death, is wasted time here or for anyone to judge. Be it far better to learn from others than to look for fault.
Thank you for your reply, you have given me an opportunity to clarify some of my thoughts. Suicide is not an easy subject to discuss and I appreciate being able to be so open about it.
Love and peace.
I agree evil is an absence of God, but because we're all children of God therefore it is a matter of choice to regain/re-establish that divine connection, this ability can't be lost.
Im sorry to hear of your brother and i hope he has found his way to truth and enlightenment!
I agree, its a very delicate subject, I'm thankful I was able to shed some light on such an eccentric element of our world, thank you for allowing me to do this & your insight.
I have recently spoken to a medium - the last visit - my paternal grandfather was there - and he had killed himself back in the early 50's due to health and he had lost my grandmother the year before and couldn't live w/o her - So due to this I know and truly feel that it's up to God and the reason maybe behind it - but i know for a fact, he's in heaven and that made me feel at peace with him and the idea of suicide.
no it is not a sin
if one is suicidal one has mental illness of some sort which is a genetic disorder or a kinda brain disorder or psychological disorder ---anyways it is a disorder(An ailment that affects the function of mind or body)- dieing from mental illness is called suicide I have been around a lot of people with suicidal thoughts and have them myself the thoughts are not a choice, the disease of depression, anxiety, schizophrenia.... is not a choice. Suicide is the choice made just like when a cancer patient decides to go off of chemo --- they want the pain to stop(it is a little more complex than that but helps my point) . No I am not excusing suicide because even though it is a selfish thing it is a hard disease to fight against and some people do not have the power to fight it.
I do not believe suicide is a sin. I'm afraid though you might have to come back and do it all over again - live your life experiences, I mean (and what a pain that would be!). Humans have this thing for clinging on to life, it has always amaze me and confuse me. I sometimes believe/fear that we may have made up the whole afterlife business (heaven and what-not, reincarnation) simply not to die and be done with. We want to live forever. I cannot for the life of me understand why. I want to die and stay dead. I don't want to return to spirit, I don't want to live in another world in any other form, I don't to come back to earth. However, who cares what I want? So here am I seeking like everybody else just in case I have to come back and do it all over again. LOL.
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The decision to die rather than live is taken by many people for many reasons.
As Chief Dan George said in Little Big Man .. "Today is a good day to die."
I have sat at the bedside of a few people as they were dying. The interesting thing in all the cases I encountered was that the individual fought the process for some time, and once they resolved or resigned themselves to the process they then proceeded to go ahead and die. There is often that component of a personal decision even in cases of age and sickness and other roads to death.
Is this suicide? Deciding to go ahead and die instead of taking steps and continuing to fight to live.
We are all going to die. I don't see how details of timing would or should be of any huge concern to a creator. I can go even further if you accept the idea of a loving God as a parent figure. Although tragic, I can not imagine a loving parent who (after a suicide) would condemn the child. They may ask why, they may struggle with the decision, they may hope and long for a different path to have been followed, but ultimately the Love of the child or the Love of the Creation trumps loos or blame.
Suicide is a human tragedy not a sin.
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into.
material experiences are temporary and do not hold the significance people put on them. Including physical death. It is all for the purpose of learning the truth. I don't believe any life or death, is wasted time here or for anyone to judge. Be it far better to learn from others than to look for fault.
Beloved angels,
The idea of sin comes from the concept of a God who punishes; and God, being the supreme source of unconditional love, can't punish anyone. God is not a judge or executioner. He is all LOVE!
Lots and lots of love to one and all sweet angels!
Venu
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The idea of sin comes from the concept of a God who punishes; and God, being the supreme source of unconditional love, can't punish anyone. God is not a judge or executioner. He is all LOVE!
Lots and lots of love to one and all sweet angels!
Venu
I do agree but must acknowledge that much of the world does not. The vengeful God (or dispassionate Universal Oneness, or athiestic belief in nothing but the self) is still present in the belief of much of the world. If anything these beliefs are increasing not decreasin.
I believe in a Loving Creator. For those who believe in a vengeful God or those who believe in nothing other than themselves - then suicide can be seen as a sin against that God or the ultimate failure of the self.
While it may not be right for all who is to say that is not right for some? Could you imagine being in such terrible pain to think that could be your only way out? Then be told if you did it you would be a sinner for all of your afterlife?
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